Early Criticism of GNOME Do
I’d like to respond to some early criticism I’ve seen of GNOME Do.
“Why is it written in a Windows-specific language? It would have better for them to write it in Python.”
I get the idea that most of the people saying this simply don’t understand what they’re talking about. Yes, Do plugins have the extension “.dll”, the Do executable ends with “.exe”, and Do is written in C#. No, Do isn’t designed for Windows. No, you will not experience “dll hell”–I don’t even know what that means. No, C# is not “Windows-specific.” No, Python would not have been a better choice; I love Python, but not for sustainable application development. If you happily use Python applications while decrying Mono as inherently slow, you need to do some research.
On a personal note, I have used Mac OS X, FreeBSD, and Linux exclusively for the last seven years. I don’t use Windows because it lowers my quality of life. I haven’t tried Vista. I recently made the switch from OS X to Ubuntu after realizing that all Steve Jobs wants is for you to shut up and buy a new iPod; don’t you dare criticize his taste or the way he treats third-party developers like dirt. Also, I’m fairly confident that propriety software has no future. Yes, I am aware that proprietary software has a multi-trillion dollar past and present, but this implies nothing about the future.
Now that I’m all worked up–no, Novell and Miguel de Icaza are not maliciously conspiring with Microsoft against Linux. I’m inclined to believe that Microsoft is very interested in the demise of free software, but I am also disinclined to believe that Novell or Miguel share this interest. Yes, the FUD surrounding Mono will blow over. Why? Because Mono is an exceptional platform and something we should be extremely proud of. I’m really tired of the dogmatic responses to Novell. This kind of irrational finger-pointing reflects poorly on the entire free software community (from http://joeshaw.org/2007/12/07/507):
GNOME CO-FOUNDER AND NOVELL EMPLOYEE SAYS EXCEL IS “CERTAINLY A NICE PIECE OF SOFTWARE.”
When will those Novell guys stop suckling at the Microsoft teat? It makes me sick.
This is a knee-jerk response to a remark that was written a decade ago. Edit: Joe Shaw (author of the above) informed me that this was a joke. Hopefully he’ll forgive my mistake since I’m new to this community and don’t know who the old hands are. Taken as a joke, Joe’s comment does even more to demonstrate the nature of the problem I’m discussing. When someone dedicates their career to creating free software, I don’t care if they think Clippy is the messiah–I owe that person my gratitude and my bug reports. And you know what? Excel is very good at what it does. At the same time, I think Microsoft often engages in morally bankrupt business practices, so I don’t buy Microsoft products or Microsoft stock. These are called “mixed opinions.” They are very healthy, and they actually have some basis in reality.
“What’s with the name ‘GNOME Do’”?
I originally called the program “GNOME Commander,” but I replaced all instances of “Commander” with “Do” when I saw that a program called GNOME Commander already exists. GNOME Do is a temporary name, and if you have any suggestions for what its name should be, please see the thread “We need a name” on our mailing list.
Thank you and good luck.
Um, my post was a joke. I worked at Novell (and Ximian before that) for almost 8 years, and Federico is a good friend of mine.
To take it a step further:
This just goes to show that those GNOME and Novell people have always wanted to be buddy-buddy with Microsoft and that they’ve been cooking up a deal to sell out the Linux community for nearly a decade.
(Edit by David): Haha. You definitely got me. Forgive me, I’m new to this game.
Joe Shaw
8 Dec 07 at 1:08 pm
Dave,
No criticism from everyday users like me. I discovered your program this week and already can’t work without it.
It’s making my Ubuntu experience even better and would suggest that this program is adopted as part of base system.
I’m not a programmer, I’ve never used a Mac. I just gave up on Windows when Vista came out and switched to Ubuntu and that’s where I will stay.
Keep up the great work. I hope for a Google search plugin (I read the previous post but don’t know how to implement it) and further development.
I think that you should take the criticism from the ‘geeks’ as a compliment!!
Keep up the great work!
Martyn Parker
8 Dec 07 at 1:41 pm
Dave,
I just found your program and am loving it! I switched over from XP to Ubuntu on my work laptop about 2 months ago and was really missing Launchy.
Like the above post, I’m no programmer, so having some prebuilt plugins would be great.
Thanks for such a great program!
shspanthers
8 Dec 07 at 2:21 pm
[...] http://blog.davebsd.com/2007/12/08/early-criticism-of-gnome-do/ [...]
Jay R. Wren - lazy dawg evarlast » Blog Archive » David Siegel, will you be my new lover?
8 Dec 07 at 4:18 pm
Dave,
Thanks for this project! I use Quicksilver on my mac laptop, and have been interested in a similar app for my main linux box for a while. Your app looks very nice so far and I hope you continue to develop it more and get some programmers on board. I can’t help right now, I just started programming, but one day I will help with projects
Since Quicksilver source is open now, perhaps you could look there if you don’t already for help, although I don’t know what license they are using and compatibility with any license you are using.
Keep up the great work at U of Penn!
-Craig
CS at Ball State University
Craig
8 Dec 07 at 5:02 pm
I, for one, am very pleased you elected to use Mono, I find it an exceptionally pleasant platform to work with and I can find tons of great books on C# (many of which are on my shelf).
I’ve always felt it was a sign of poor debating skills when opponents of Mono resort to ad hominem attacks or invoke the patent card without actually providing evidence that this is indeed a problem.
It’s so sad when application maintainers like Aaron Bockover (Banshee) and yourself need to defend your choice of implementation language, not based on technical grounds but based on pure hatred.
I will be hoping this is the last post I ever see wherein an application developer needs to defend himself over using Mono for none technical reasons. We have so many better things to do with our time than to bicker over this, it’s been going on for years and I am sick of it.
David Nielsen
9 Dec 07 at 3:32 am
I came here via trackback from Joe’s Blog.
Aw man, this is hilarious! :’D
Sarcasm upon sarcasm on Joe’s blog which was misunderstood and turned into a flaming post here
Somehow, I just can’t stop laughing.
Nirbheek Chauhan
9 Dec 07 at 3:46 am
I wouldn’t call this post “flaming.” I don’t think that means what you think it means.
Dave
9 Dec 07 at 6:40 am
@Dave
Well, urban words (especially adjectives) can and often are used in several different meanings, and in this case by “flaming” I meant “burning with passion”
Nirbheek Chauhan
9 Dec 07 at 10:09 pm
[...] David Siegel’s response to criticisms about his platform of [...]
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[...] David Siegel’s response to criticisms about his platform of [...]
Ubuntu Index » Blog Archive » Jorge Castro: Music Geeks and Computer Geeks
10 Dec 07 at 7:08 am
Looks quite nice. I use a Mac, but seeing apps like these makes me consider the possibility of switching to Ubuntu quite seriously.
Marcus
10 Dec 07 at 7:22 am
Hey dude,
I just wanted to give you mad props. I do CS as a hobby here at Dartmouth and seeing you do this while still handling work at school is remarkable in my view. You have created a great app and more power to you for making it for Linux on Mono. If I ever get around to learning C# (I’m a Python nut, myself) I would love to help out with plugins in whatever way I could.
Peace,
Dave
David (not THE Dave)
10 Dec 07 at 4:28 pm
David,
I am very happy that you understand the criticism of Mono. It is a great thing some individuals do, blasting a technology without ever using or educating them selves about it. Keep up the excellent work writing software people love to use.
Aaron Thul
10 Dec 07 at 8:04 pm
I am somewhat displeased at the performance of Tomboy (it works great, but when it gets swapped to the HD and needs to come back, it takes forever). But I haven’t experienced this with Gnome Do, so I guess it’s just the implementation.
That said, I do think Novell knows that they’re doing. Even if they aren’t, they’re behind things like Compiz, which are simply great.
Vadim P.
11 Dec 07 at 5:25 pm
Actually, skip that. I should do my research first.
Reading the Microsoft-Novell Patent Covenant (http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/patent_agreement.mspx#E3)
Here are the important parts, as I understand:
“Microsoft, on behalf of itself and its Subsidiaries (collectively “Microsoft”), hereby covenants not to sue Novell’s Customers and Novell’s Subsidiaries’ Customers…”
“Also, the foregoing covenant will apply to Novell’s customers’ and its developers’ use of copies of Covered Products distributed by Novell that are in development…”
““Customers” means an entity or individual that utilizes a specific copy of a Covered Product (or, for purposes of Sections 4.2 and 7.3, any product or service of a Party) for its intended purpose as authorized by a Party in consideration for Revenue (directly or indirectly) to such Party. Entities or individuals are not Customers when they (1) resell, license, supply, distribute or otherwise make available to third parties such specific copy or additional copies of the Covered Product (or, for purposes of Sections 4.2 and 7.3, any product or service of a Party) they otherwise utilize as a Customer; or (2) resell, license, supply, or distribute the output of SDKs or embedded developer kits they utilize as a Customer. For avoidance of doubt, an entity or individual cannot qualify both as a Customer and Distributor for use of the same copy of any given product or service.”
If I understand it correct, Gnome Do is not a customer, and is not covered by this Covenant. Mono is, but Gnome Do isn’t. And all products made on Mono aren’t either.
Vadim P.
12 Dec 07 at 11:09 am
This leaves GNOME Do in the same position it would have been had it been created with any other technology (Python, Java, C, etc.)–as long as GNOME Do doesn’t violate any Microsoft patents, it’s fine.
Dave
12 Dec 07 at 12:42 pm
I’ve tried to build from source and from trunk and both ended in errors. Is there a place I can post this to get some ideas on how to fix it. I’d really like to have some of that Quicksilver goodness on my Linux workstations!
–Shawn
Shawn
12 Dec 07 at 5:02 pm
You can look for answers (and ask them) here: https://answers.launchpad.net/gc/
Dave
12 Dec 07 at 5:05 pm
David,
Major kudos to you! I have been using Katapult on my ubuntu for sometime now. While I liked it, at times it freaked out, possibly because of it being for KDE and I use Gnome. Anyhow, I am liking the app and keep up the good work.
Thanks!
Tim
13 Dec 07 at 10:26 am
If you mean that Gnome Do does not use any parts of Mono that violate Microsoft patents, then it is fine. If it does use a part of Mono that violates a patent, then Mono is fine, Do isn’t.
But I’m hoping for the best of course.
Vadim P.
13 Dec 07 at 11:02 am
http://www.ohloh.net/projects/10255?p=GNOME+do
Vadim P.
13 Dec 07 at 1:02 pm
I have a weird question. What’s with all the duplicate software for GNOME? Here’s GNOME Do and it’s all nice and useful.
Strangely, it reminds me of the Deskbar applet. From what I gather from my brief experience, there aren’t really any critical features that GNOME Do has and Deskbar doesn’t that would rationalize a complete rewrite of a fairly popular program. Besides, if you lack a feature, you don’t write your own program. You contribute to the open source project. Also, last time I checked, eye candy doesn’t boost the ratings that much when it’s applied to a single piece of software.
Just my 2 cents.
Delian
15 Dec 07 at 1:14 pm
GNOME Do is a school project. I’m working on it for a grade. If I just added small features to Deskbar, I would get an F.
Also, about these missing “critical features,” I’ve been working on GNOME Do for a semester. Did you read somewhere that GNOME Do is feature-complete? It has barely just begun.
‘Last time I checked’, you sound like an ass.
Dave
15 Dec 07 at 1:19 pm
Perhaps I do sound like a complete jerk. And might also be acting like one. For which I’m sorry.
The point is, I’m completely exhausted and deprived of my ability to think soberly from seeing the same thing done five different ways. I’m sorry if I was way out of line but it’s been my experience that people just can’t see the point to OSS. It’s not a matter of starting a project and waiting for people to jump on the bandwagon, out of eagerness to help you.
See the home media systems scene, for example. You have the big guys like MythTV and Freevo which are all popular and well developed. Then, there are one-man projects like Sofa which simply don’t deliver anything new. Yet, their authors stick to their own projects, refusing to even consider contributing ideas to the larger systems.
In your case, you are excused for doing this for school. However, you might try and talk to your teacher/professor about alternative assessment. He might actually agree to assess your contributions on an open source project.
Again, sorry for being so agressive but I think anyone with a minimal experience with OSS projects will agree with me.
Good luck with your thing and forgive me for not giving Deskbar up.
Delian
15 Dec 07 at 3:47 pm
I agree with you in general; however, I believe that GNOME Do is unlike anything available on Linux. I haven’t come across any similar programs that apply machine learning techniques to figure out what items on your computer are most important to you. I haven’t seen any launchers (on Linux) that do the extremely simple task of quickly opening applications well. I haven’t seen similar programs do type-based prioritization of search results. I have a 16-page writeup about the project on the mailing list. It details how GNOME Do is (or will be) different from Quicksilver, GNOME Launch Box, etc. — and there’s even a brief mention of Deskbar. I don’t expect you to read all of it, but please be assured that I’ve assessed similar projects thoroughly, and that I’m not reinventing the wheel.
Dave
15 Dec 07 at 3:56 pm
On the other hand, I don’t blame people who see a screenshot of Do, or even try it out, and only see yet another launcher, or yet another Quicksilver wannabe–this is certainly what meets the eye. But there’s more to it, I promise.
Dave
15 Dec 07 at 4:02 pm
… the problem is the need to start all the Mono core to use Gnome Do.
Some of us do not want it to happen, still loving Gnome.
Gnome generally still doesn’t require Mono (even if some nice apps do), and we hope, NEVER will.
Miguel is somehow getting more distant from Gnome. Even @ Gnome Foundation… Since Ximian, he sees Microsoft as need_to_connect_to (remember Ximian Exchange Connector ?)
I guess this woulnd’t have lot’s of users in a Mac analog situation… (even… well, its just too many layers)
Besides that, your app looks lovely. And yes, you should keep workin on it.
Pedro T.
15 Dec 07 at 8:22 pm
Why also if i have tomboy installed i can’t use the Super+Space combinatio to start gnome-do? In synaptic i don’t find libtomboy….
Garret
16 Dec 07 at 12:56 am
I love it! I’m a huge fan of FARR (Find and Run Robot) on Windows (at work) and have been waiting for something similar on Linux (home).
If you haven’t checked FARR out – I would – might pick up some ideas…
Jim Priest
20 Dec 07 at 6:44 pm
[...] – David Siegel [...]
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joe shaw / i can make any situation about me
3 Feb 08 at 7:30 am
“Also, I’m fairly confident that propriety software has no future. Yes, I am aware that proprietary software has a multi-trillion dollar past and present, but this implies nothing about the future.”
As you’re a college student (read, “relatively unschooled in the strange ways of corporate America”) you can be forgiven for having such a idealistic outlook. Eventually you will discover that Corporate America (or at least those who are the Powers That Be ™ in Corporate America) like proprietary software. The proprietary/open debate is irrelevant to them. What they like about proprietary software are the trappings that come with it, expensive consultants, expensive support contracts, expensive staff training programs, and expensive upgrades. Corporate America is all about spending money (”it takes money to make money”) and proprietary software let’s them do that and justify overinflated budgets to their Powers That Be. Inexpensive software by definition can’t be as good, in their eyes.
hofo
5 Feb 08 at 11:54 am
hofo, a penny saved is a penny earned
Dave
5 Feb 08 at 11:58 am
“No, you will not experience “dll hell”–I don’t even know what that means.”
No, I am not a bipedal hominid! BTW, what *is* a bipedal hominid?
zerothis
6 Feb 09 at 7:35 pm